Curse

Tactical-Dillusions · Nov 11, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

I think half the mobs in Tyria just started acting like the wacky minotaurs between Amnoon Oasis and Hero's Audience. (The ones that run from any attack and even attack each other!)

Earlier i saw a storm kiln run away from me, even though the AoE damage came from a hydra i accidentally aggro'd - now that's...errm, different to say the least.

Raptox · Nov 11, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

A few questions/comments:

Mhenlo doesn't keep standing in Maelstrom anymore? Oh, you bastard Ice Imps, the day is mine!

Does the idiot brigade still decide to stand in the poison swamps until they die, or do they now move to safe ground? Probably still the former, since it's not an "AoE Spell," but I thought I'd ask.

Most of the economy discussion is relevant, and well explained, but most people forget that Anet has introduced artificial limits, caps, and resets into the economy in the past, and will likely do so again. A Superior Rune of Vigor might be 75k today, but who knows what it'll be reset to tomorrow?

It is your perogative to change your build or not. I propose that it is more entertaining than you think. For me, I was playing a wammo with a fiery dragon sword and a mishmosh skill set most of the PvE game. (Many of you just slapped your head in disgust. Please keep reading.) I got somewhat tired of this build and wondered what I could do to get better at the game, since I just wasn't cutting it. I hopped on the forums here, took a hard look at my skills, and now I'm trying a variant on the knocklock principle which (DUH) works a lot better. I'll probably try Axe in the future, too. Let's not even talk about all the combinations I could experiment with using my E/Me. This is part of the game, have fun with it. Don't be afraid of it.

For the record, I haven't finished the game yet. I simply don't have a lot of time to play, so I keep it to a couple of hours a night at most. In fact, I beat Thunderhead Keep last night with friends just before the update hit. This leads me to another question: Do the ballistae at the Keep now scatter the enemies too? Seems pretty dumb to me to sit there and take splash damage till you die. A teammate said, last night, "This is the most idiotic seige ever. 'My Fellow Jades, if we rush them all at once, we will surely win the day. Therefore, let's rush them two at a time!'" Of course, this would make the Keep impossible, but I digress, so I'll end it here.

id0l · Nov 11, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niosisw

Look for something other than a damn fire ele?

Easy solution

Spikers. They do just as much damage, it's just not over an area, so you spike 1 target instead of multiple. It's the same effect, you do the same damage

Great for spikers. Why should players be FORCED to switch playing styles?

CKaz · Nov 11, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Just bought the game for her and got my wife into it. I play a monk to support her and I think 'I'll keep her away from the cookie cutter W/MO, she has me! Let's try W/E with her!'
I feel like crap now.

I thought after close to 600 hours I could pick something appropriate for her with the 2nd class as she just wanted me to pick. She's up to level 9 post sear now and I find I may have led her to the worst combo ever post patch. She defines casual play. Wondering if it was just a big waste of effort, time, and dough.

So early on (until later where I might get her going with elemental wpn and conjure) try a lavastorm. Now enemies flee from a warr. Hmm how about a ONE PULSE AOE which might even help with this new stupid flee crap - she just got Frozen Burst. Well they 'SENSE' your spell I guess - they ran away from her as it queued up and hit noone. Can you say most useless build ever? If a warr can't even one-off an AOE what good is a W/E? Yeah yeah conjure but I was hoping the whole second class might be a little more than a one-trick pony.

Going further though, how retarded is the single-shot AoE run? So they sense that too? Or even if they get hit they THEN run? It's single pulse dude..

You can still farm by the way it's just more retarded..
So now ie in Elona the minos will come in go out come in go out - dumbest thing you ever saw - I'm debating if I should even bring defense as they're too busy running back and forth to take many swings at me - just bring more nukes and energy mitigation lol.

But what they totally f-d up is grouping (with so much of this aggro and willy nilly running) with ANY kind of AoE as all the mobs now have hyper-sense stupidity. Clearing out before it even fires? And again for some they're running from one-offs, still get tagged, and you wait for their return.. how stupid is that? If anything the R/E or R/MO might become the new farmer. Keep range damaging these running SOBs while they run willy nilly away from the uber (rotfl) lavafont. Toss a symbol of wrath down now not for offense but a respite from those pounding on you.

Did they test this? Did they even think?
I don't get core game changing sweeps like this.
Talk about really dampening my chances for getting the expansion.

Where I was looking forward to an injection, if they feel they can stupidly trash the way their game plays at anytime I'll pass. If you hate farming get yer heads outta yer butts and deal with that. But not ruin those in FoW, UW, SF in groups with totally illogical 'chicken without a head' aggro.

Even if you wanted to ruin an entire class of spells, why the AoE one-offs? They usually have their own limitations. I hear even chain-lightning and deathly swarm have issues. Why kill point blank AoE bursts, even one-offs? Why are a whole group of mobs running from frozen burst before it launches? I think its funny

they beef up water and then ruin it in one fell swoop.. ok wait another 30seconds and try to catch them then? At least something like this might have helped reduce the new 'AI-STUPIDITY' introduced.

If I was set up with video making I'd show you now what happens when you chain (yes even one-off point blank) AoE in Elona with the minos. You can still farm them, it's just the most retarded thing you'll ever see. So again, didn't do what they hoped I imagine, if anything now you may bring some of these now useless spells for defense, exploiting the fact these dumb azzes now do more running then fighting. Wand'em, Bow them, cheap area spell for backing them off. Warriors? Sorry go chase em or cripple all you can first, [just don't try the area stuff to do so it appears at first run through].

To date I've been pretty supportive of all changes.
Now I think they've just lost their minds

I've been logging in too many hours anyways, this might help me move on.
Thanks arena net?

Doull put it more eloquently, I'm just more pissed.
You guys just cant handle the farmers can you?
Well they still will find away, your new code opens a bunch of new paths for them.

Meanwhile PUGs will just be WAY more painful, yay more henchmen play for a MMO!
And you'll drive away casual players that were coming in or we were trying to bring in.

BIG lose-lose-lose.
With this change I probably don't have a lot of time left with the game.
And I was a BIG fan of GW and probably brought 6-8 people to the game myself (go DINKs lol)

Diversity of game play was a big plus here, but you've managed to kick a lot of that in the teeth in one fell swoop, while still the farmers will farm. Harder AI and PvE? Nah they still make stupid choices. You'll just get more frustrated individuals as yet more skills and spells go on the dead pile. And really kicked in the head some class combinations, particularly those involving Eles.

And I say again, farming will still be easy, if not easier, for the farms.
Way to keep swatting at the fly with a baseball bat - maybe you'll hit the fly sometime.

Some of us (at least still) were sticking to the PvE, the more casual, working with friends brought in, etc. If you really took a blind eye to the PvE here, yet another factor in a bad move.

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

1) Echo Nukers have been nerfed. Good. It was skill-less brute force relying on two spells, exploiting a weakness in the mob AI. Good riddance.

2) USE SNARES! You want the mobs to stay in your AoE? Snare them! FFS, eles have something like a dozen different snares to chose from, learn to use them!

3) Don't give me the "my build is based on echo nuking and now it's useless" crap. Respeccing is FREE and UNLIMITED in Guildwars. This isn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing WoW! So stop crying and respec your build!

4.) Less stupid warriors who know nothing except for being a tank. This may improve their PvP skills more...I hope.

5.) More strategies involved so less need for monks who are there to cover your mistakes (like keep hitting when under Empathy?). I've seen so many warriors/rangers kill themsevles to death while blaming the monks. It's a good change for the monks really. Because just you are dead doesn't mean it's always the monk's fault.

6.) Less prejudice in PvE. I am a beast master myself and I can tell you that I don't get invited a lot because I am not a "nuker", "tank", "healer". Muhahahahahaahaha...

blakk · Nov 11, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I think that from anet's perspective the PvP players are the normal players.

CKaz · Nov 11, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueyoda

Regular players to find another game - this update should be for PvP only if you ask me or just scratch it altogether.

Yeah I can't believe GW found a way to make me think it.
If you asked me before this patch if they could ever make me go I would have said 'not bloody likely'.

I'm not sure they get that they're getting new casual players all the time yet too - we try to bring new people in. Which I feel a fool for doing so now.

'Hey wanna play ping pong with some mobs?'

And I'll say it again, I can still solo in Elona w/o breaking a sweat.
Why do I solo? I just recently decided to see if I could with a E/ME.

This just screws my wife's W/E from even being able to function w/o my monk attached to her hip. Silly me, why didn't I just tell her W/MO..

And isn't it odd I don't have to change a farm lineup but if I want to GROUP with players anywhere serious I'll HAVE to go single target only.

And PUGs will be that much more painful.

Well I'm repeating myself.. it's a shock response.. sorry..

entropy · Nov 11, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Snares now what snares does fire have?? meteor shower knocks down but they run their ass away from that. So its basically water eles now right???

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Just bought the game for her and got my wife into it. I play a monk to support her and I think 'I'll keep her away from the cookie cutter W/MO, she has me! Let's try W/E with her!'
I feel like crap now.

I thought after close to 600 hours I could pick something appropriate for her with the 2nd class as she just wanted me to pick. She's up to level 9 post sear now and I find I may have led her to the worst combo ever post patch. She defines casual play. Wondering if it was just a big waste of effort, time, and dough.

So early on (until later where I might get her going with elemental wpn and conjure) try a lavastorm. Now enemies flee from a warr. Hmm how about a ONE PULSE AOE which might even help with this new stupid flee crap - she just got Frozen Burst. Well they 'SENSE' your spell I guess - they ran away from her as it queued up and hit noone. Can you say most useless build ever? If a warr can't even one-off an AOE what good is a W/E? Yeah yeah conjure but I was hoping the whole second class might be a little more than a one-trick pony.

Going further though, how retarded is the single-shot AoE run? So they sense that too? Or even if they get hit they THEN run? It's single pulse dude..

You can still farm by the way it's just more retarded..
So now ie in Elona the minos will come in go out come in go out - dumbest thing you ever saw - I'm debating if I should even bring defense as they're too busy running back and forth to take many swings at me - just bring more nukes and energy mitigation lol.

But what they totally f-d up is grouping (with so much of this aggro and willy nilly running) with ANY kind of AoE as all the mobs now have hyper-sense stupidity. Clearing out before it even fires? And again for some they're running from one-offs, still get tagged, and you wait for their return.. how stupid is that? If anything the R/E or R/MO might become the new farmer. Keep range damaging these running SOBs while they run willy nilly away from the uber (rotfl) lavafont. Toss a symbol of wrath down now not for offense but a respite from those pounding on you.

Did they test this? Did they even think?
I don't get core game changing sweeps like this.
Talk about really dampening my chances for getting the expansion.

Where I was looking forward to an injection, if they feel they can stupidly trash the way their game plays at anytime I'll pass. If you hate farming get yer heads outta yer butts and deal with that. But not ruin those in FoW, UW, SF in groups with totally illogical 'chicken without a head' aggro.

Even if you wanted to ruin an entire class of spells, why the AoE one-offs? They usually have their own limitations. I hear even chain-lightning and deathly swarm have issues. Why kill point blank AoE bursts, even one-offs? Why are a whole group of mobs running from frozen burst before it launches? I think its funny

they beef up water and then ruin it in one fell swoop.. ok wait another 30seconds and try to catch them then? At least something like this might have helped reduce the new 'AI-STUPIDITY' introduced.

If I was set up with video making I'd show you now what happens when you chain (yes even one-off point blank) AoE in Elona with the minos. You can still farm them, it's just the most retarded thing you'll ever see. So again, didn't do what they hoped I imagine, if anything now you may bring some of these now useless spells for defense, exploiting the fact these dumb azzes now do more running then fighting. Wand'em, Bow them, cheap area spell for backing them off. Warriors? Sorry go chase em or cripple all you can first, [just don't try the area stuff to do so it appears at first run through].

To date I've been pretty supportive of all changes.
Now I think they've just lost their minds

I've been logging in too many hours anyways, this might help me move on.
Thanks arena net?

Doull put it more eloquently, I'm just more pissed.
You guys just cant handle the farmers can you?
Well they still will find away, your new code opens a bunch of new paths for them.

Meanwhile PUGs will just be WAY more painful, yay more henchmen play for a MMO!
And you'll drive casual players that were coming in or we were trying to bring in.

BIG lose-lose-lose.
With this change I probably don't have a lot of time left with the game.
And I was a BIG fan of GW and probably brought 6-8 people to the game (go DINKs lol)

Diversity of game play was a big plus here, but you've managed to kick a lot of that in the teeth in one fell swoop, while still the farmers will farm. Harder AI and PvE? Nah they still make stupid choices. You'll just get more frustrated individuals as yet more skills and spells go on the dead pile. And really kicked in the head some class combinations, particularly those involving Eles.

And I say again, farming will still be easy, if not easier, for the farms.
Way to keep swatting at the fly with a baseball bat - maybe you'll hit the fly sometime.

Improving Monster's AI is just a "start". I am sure they'll make more changes later. Don't quit so soon yet.

Crusnik · Nov 11, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

The GW team really mested the game up now.

They are constantly whining about making the game fair for beginning players and players that have already 4 characters. Now all they did was nerf like almost everything. People that start playing Guild Wars now will not even have a chance to get like 15k armor in a year! and why is that? Cause some genius had an idea that defies all logic. Enemy's that run AWAY from people that play the game. HAVE U EVER heard something more moronotic then an idea like that? Enemy's are supposed to like and want to kill the player as much as possible. Not think for themselfs like" Oh no they are casting an aoe skill LET'S RUN FOR OUR LIVES" and then the player is gonna chace the enemy's. it doesn't make any sense at all.

Also the economy wont be stable anymore prices of like Green Items will skyrocket the same with ecto and Obsidian Shards. The game is nothing that comes close to fair at this moment.

With this update they practicly just can delete the profession Elementalist. I'm basicly really supprised that some bonehead of the team didn't got an idea like that.

I understand that the GW craw wants to make people play gvg/pvp and less pve but there are more effective ways of doing that and not nerfing the whole freaking pve thing. Even Monsters in missions are running away like crazy! And then again. Some people like to just play pve and not the whole bullshit about pvp or gvg and that stuff. Those people just like almost lost there money they spended on this game.

So I think the GW team really need to nerf there heads instead of this game cause the logic they have at the moment makes no sense at all.

RTSFirebat · Nov 11, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

In case anyone is wondering if A.net is reading any of this and paying attention, if you look to the bottom of the screen you can see who is viewing the thread... its none other then Alex Weekes!

Hopefully A.net will see that the patch is very much overkill and change some it back.

The way I see it I love the fact the henchmen run away when a AoE is cast on them, I do the same.... however making the mobs run about like nutter EACH and EVERY single time seems a bit weird....

For example why not make it so Charr don't run for fire... but other Ice type mobs do? Or make it so some mobs have more fear of attacks then others... take the Stone Summit... they are bad ass... why would they run away from anything?

BrandonIT · Nov 11, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I still think this update will work out in the long run. Life is about change. I will adapt my builds to the new reality, as will everyone else here.

I do agree though the AI could stand a little tweaking. I too was an observer of the "chicken without a head" phenomenon while fighting Enchanted's and Jade Scarab's. Basically they would come towards me, I'd bop them with my cane, then they'd run away. Then they'd come towards me again, bop, run away. I mean seriously, an Enchanted Sword running away from a monk? (I believe he got scared after my buddies whooped his partner when he got too close to me.)

Anyway, some AI tweaking may need to be done, but kudos for a good patch with good ideas. And, I like Firebat's idea of having some monsters more "skittish" than others. I don't see why the Stone Summit would run from anything other than true nuking, like 2 Meteor Storms in a row.

Tweak the AI, and please make sure the henchies will get out of the poison water now...

yslee · Nov 11, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Suggesting Snares as a solution is merely crippling the Elementalist even more. Let's consider a 15 fire 11 energy and 11 water setup. Deep Freeze and Ice Spikes. Your fire is now at 15 instead of 16, which results in slightly less damage with your Fire spells. Now consider the snares; Deep Freeze does 65, Ice Spikes does 64. Quite a large tradeoff in damage if you ask me. Now I suppose you can have a fire ele and a water ele, but adding one support character just to make another character work is very much crippling the team (as opposed to the individual build) in most cases. It might still work, but that will require a lot of synergy, which in PvE just doesn't happen too often.

Also consider that the two snare spells are AoE spells, and they WILL trigger a mob to run, and even though they'll run slowly, Fire AoEs generally take forever to cast as well. End result is that with most Fire spells it gives them an extra hit or two; with Meteor it's just as bad, with its small AoE. Only with Rodgort's Invocation and its huge AoE was the full effect of the spell brought to bear with the help of a snare.

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Snares now what snares does fire have?? meteor shower knocks down but they run their ass away from that. So its basically water eles now right???

Or, stop relying so much on AoE spells?? Water spells combine well with Fire spells. That's a good combination but it's not THE ONLY combination.

That's what GW is trying to do. They don't want the usual "nuker, tank, healer" thing because a lot of new players tend to forget what mesmer/necro/ranger can do.

I am at work now so I haven't tested it but I don't think it's that bad a change.

entropy · Nov 11, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I think I may actually have to bring sprint in pve. I mean seriously using henchies sucks since the ai's run away from eveyrthing and the henchies go and aggro everything. I mean rreally there was 4 moss scarabs in my aggro circle and all they did was walk back and forth. I mean they just made the ai 10x worse.

entropy · Nov 11, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Or, stop relying so much on AoE spells?? Water spells combine well with Fire spells. That's a good combination but it's not THE ONLY combination.

That's what GW is trying to do. They don't want the usual "nuker, tank, healer" thing because a lot of new players tend to forget what mesmer/necro/ranger can do.

I am at work now so I haven't tested it but I don't think it's that bad a change.

As I said before And I will state it again! The whole fire line is nerfed. It the most useless thing ever in pvp but in PvE it HAD some uses. If they don't want the usual tank, healer, nuker thing why don't they change some of the skills around. What happens if I don't feel like spreading my att into 4 things for me ele. Energy Storage, Fire, Water, Secondary or even 3.

I use earth anyway but its total bs.

Valdis · Nov 11, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

3. smart people know that running is where you make the real gold. if you can tell me a better way to make 120k in 4 hours then sign me up. with the update running just got easier. GW did not make it harder to get gold they just made it easier.

Lets think about what you just said..."running just got easier". OK, since running is sooo easy now....what the hell makes you think somebody is going to PAY you to do something they can do on thier own?????

X-Bomb · Nov 11, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

ANET Can we get higher XP to make up for the added difficulty/time its takes to kill a group of monsters.

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by yslee

Suggesting Snares as a solution is merely crippling the Elementalist even more. Let's consider a 15 fire 11 energy and 11 water setup. Deep Freeze and Ice Spikes. Your fire is now at 15 instead of 16, which results in slightly less damage with your Fire spells. Now consider the snares; Deep Freeze does 65, Ice Spikes does 64. Quite a large tradeoff in damage if you ask me. Now I suppose you can have a fire ele and a water ele, but adding one support character just to make another character work is very much crippling the team (as opposed to the individual build) in most cases. It might still work, but that will require a lot of synergy, which in PvE just doesn't happen too often.

Also consider that the two snare spells are AoE spells, and they WILL trigger a mob to run, and even though they'll run slowly, Fire AoEs generally take forever to cast as well. End result is that with most Fire spells it gives them an extra hit or two; with Meteor it's just as bad, with its small AoE. Only with Rodgort's Invocation and its huge AoE was the full effect of the spell brought to bear with the help of a snare.

Why do people just think about Elementalist gets ruined in PvE now??? That is EXACTLY what they want to change.

There are other classes that can do just as well.

How about instead of killing 2-3 monsters, you focus on one instead? Lightning element is a good choice. Earth can be good too. Water has many good snares to help the party but it's not THE only way. There are trappers, interrupters and many other useful builds.

CKaz · Nov 11, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

Great for spikers. Why should players be FORCED to switch playing styles?

Could you eventually limit how I play GW - from what I do during my time with the game to exactly the classes and skills I choose - that make a specific arena net decision-making population warm and fuzzy?

Cause lord knows I bought the game so you could dictate how I play it and with what specific setups will actually work in your vision. Thanks!